{"id":5849,"date":"2024-07-10T07:41:34","date_gmt":"2024-07-10T07:41:34","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/al-mawrid.org\/questions-en\/2024\/07\/10\/bisexuality-and-the-family-system-ii\/"},"modified":"2024-07-10T13:19:01","modified_gmt":"2024-07-10T13:19:01","slug":"bisexuality-and-the-family-system-ii","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/al-mawrid.org\/questions-en\/bisexuality-and-the-family-system-ii\/","title":{"rendered":"Bisexuality And The Family System II"},"content":{"rendered":"
Question<\/h3>\n
Thank you very much for spending the time to answer my questions. I sincerely appreciate your efforts.<\/p>\n
1. Inherent in your response is the assumption that homosexuality is a learned or acquired behavior and it is not congenital (in-born). Current medical science is contrary to this assertion. Scientists have identified a gene carried by the mother that is responsible for homosexuality. It may be that there are some homosexuals who have adopted this life style by choice but not the majority or at least not the person I am talking about. <\/div>\n
2. It seems like you are confused about transvestites<\/u><\/strong> (someone who adopts the dress and often the behavior of the opposite sex) and homosexuals<\/u><\/strong> (someone who is sexually attracted to members of his or her own sex). I am not talking about transvestites, I am talking about homosexuals. There is difference. <\/div>\n
3. All the ayahs<\/em> you have cited from the Holy Qur\u2019an relate to the days of Prophet Loot where people adopted homosexuality by choice<\/u>. As you yourself state, \u201cThe above verses of the Qur’an and the fact that people of Loot are called transgressor (26:166) are evidences that it was their choice.\u201d<\/em> I am not talking about people who make this choice of their own free will. I am talking about people whose sexual behavior is due to a congenital (by birth) condition.<\/div>\n
4. You state that the Qur\u2019an condemns the act of homosexuality and yet The Qur\u2019an does not prescribe a punishment for it. For stealing, the Qur\u2019an prescribes a punishment by cutting of the hand and yet there is no prescribed punishment for homosexuality. If congenital homosexuality is an abomination then I would expect a much severe punishment for it compared to stealing. <\/div>\n
5. You suggest that homosexuals should seek treatment from an expert. First, homosexuality is not a disease for which one can seek medical advice and treatment. It is a condition that is inherited by the child from the mother. As far as I know there is no medical treatment for homosexuality.<\/div>\n
6. You have stated, \u201cAs far as I see, we do not have any specific Ahadith from the Prophet (sws) in which he would advise homosexuals. Looking at the Ahadith, it may be concluded that the Prophet (sws) clearly disapproved recognition of homosexuals in his society where Islam was just being promoted and established\u201d<\/em>. This statement is contradictory. One the one hand you state that there are no Ahadith from the Prophet (sws) where he has given advice to homosexuals, on the other hand you have cited a few Ahadith. <\/div>\n
7. The Ahadiths you refer to relate to people of Prophet Loot. Those people acted by choice whereas congenital homosexuality is not by choice. <\/div>\n
8. You state, \u201cIt is up to the judge to decide about a punishment, and please note that a person who (as you said) was born with homosexual behaviour should not be considered for punishment for his tendencies.\u201d<\/em> I see another contradiction in this statement. <\/div>\n
9. \u201cFrom Ibn ‘Abbas: The Prophet cursed effeminate men and those women who assume the manners of men, and he said, “Turn them out of your houses.” (Bukhari 7:774).\u201d<\/em> I don\u2019t think kicking them out of the house is a solution because it does not address the issue. It only moves it out of the house.<\/div>\n
My conclusions:<\/strong><\/div>\n
Based on my thinking and some of the answers provided by you, it seems like the Qur\u2019an does not address congenital homosexuality, even though homosexuals existed all through the ages. Therefore, there is room for Ijtehad on this matter. Until there is a ruling on this matter, I think we need to be kind and tolerant towards such people.<\/div>\n
My predicament:<\/strong><\/div>\n
What should I advise the person in question. Should I say that she being a homosexual cannot accept Islam or should I say that she can become a Muslim even though she is homosexual? Please advise. <\/u><\/div>\n
My predicament begs the question, are there Muslims who are homosexuals? If so, what is our attitude towards them?<\/div>\n
Thank you again for helping me understand this issue. Hope to hear from you.<\/div>\n
Answer<\/h3>\n
Thanks for writing back.<\/p>\n
Please see my notes in under each of your comments:<\/div>\n
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1. Inherent in your response is the assumption that homosexuality is a learned or acquired behavior and it is not congenital (in-born). Current medical science is contrary to this assertion. Scientists have identified a gene carried by the mother that is responsible for homosexuality. It may be that there are some homosexuals who have adopted this life style by choice but not the majority or at least not the person I am talking about. <\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
Actually this is not my assumption. I wrote: “in my opinion psychological or sexual disorders are the results of misconduct and inappropriate behaviour or the unhealthy way of living of a person or his\/her ancestors<\/u>, community or society.”<\/div>\n
As you see I have appreciated the possibility that it is coming from gene carried by parents or ancestors. It is however my personal opinion that (along with many of the other human disorders) the beginning of tendency to homosexuality in any generation line or in fact in the human being race was not by gene but by misbehaviour of people. Whether this opinion of mine is correct or not does not really matter because at the end, as you see from the above underlined part of my answer, just like you I too appreciate the effect of gene.<\/div>\n
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2. It seems like you are confused about transvestites<\/u> (someone who adopts the dress and often the behavior of the opposite sex) and homosexuals<\/u> (someone who is sexually attracted to members of his or her own sex). I am not talking about transvestites, I am talking about homosexuals. There is difference. <\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
No I am not confused about it. I was talking about the homosexuals as well. Perhaps the third Hadith that I quoted has caused you to think I am confusing the two concepts. I only quoted that Hadith because I thought it was relevant. We have plenty more like the other ones I quoted that are explicitly about homosexuality.<\/div>\n
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3. All the ayahs you have cited from the Holy Qur\u2019an relate to the days of Prophet Loot where people adopted homosexuality by choice<\/u>. As you yourself state, \u201cThe above verses of the Qur’an and the fact that people of Loot are called transgressor (26:166) are evidences that it was their choice.\u201d<\/em> I am not talking about people who make this choice of their own free will. I am talking about people whose sexual behavior is due to a congenital (by birth) condition.<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
Please read this part of my answer again:<\/div>\n
\n
“I invite you to look at the above verses and the words that are used when describing the act: Fahisha<\/em> (indecent outrage), Khaba’ith<\/em> (evil acts). We need to appreciate a point here. The point is, it is the act itself that is primarily condemned disregard of the motivation of the people who committed the act. Whether people who have committed this act has done it out of their attitudes and thoughts and or because they were born like this does not change the fact that the act is not acceptable in Islam.”<\/u><\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
If we are talking about punishing homosexuals then the question of the motivation and whether it was caused by gene is relevant. However when we are talking about whether the act itself is acceptable in Islam or not then the motivation or the cause is not relevant. Murder is condemned in Islam, whether it has been done by some one who has become murderer or by some one who has inherited psychological disorder that makes him kill people.<\/div>\n
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4. You state that he Qur\u2019an condemns the act of homosexuality and yet The Qur\u2019an does not prescribe a punishment for it. For stealing, the Qur\u2019an prescribes a punishment by cutting of the hand and yet there is no prescribed punishment for homosexuality. If congenital homosexuality is an abomination then I would expect a much severe punishment for it compared to stealing.<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
First, as I said congenital homosexuality per se (i.e. as long as it is not resulted in the act of homosexuality) is not punishable. This is because God does not expect from us to go beyond our capacities (2:286). Then for congenital homosexuality that results in practicing the sex as well, every case needs to be studied separately by the court and we cannot come up with a general rule for all.<\/div>\n
Second, please provide me a reason or evidence that proves that anything for which there is no punishment mentioned in the Qur’an is permissible. Do we have any punishments for rape in the Qur’an? Is rape not more sever than stealing?<\/div>\n
The fact is that Shari\u2018ah has only prescribed punishment for 5 crimes. These are murder of any other bodily harm, theft, fornication, accusing some one of fornication without evidence and a crime that can be categorised as Fasad fi Al-Ardh<\/em> (creating anarchy in the land). Decision about the punishment for other crimes has been left to the collectivity of Muslims with only one general guideline that is, no crime other than intentional murder or Fasad fi Al-Ardh<\/em> is punishable by death sentence.<\/div>\n
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5. You suggest that homosexuals should seek treatment from an expert. First, homosexuality is not a disease for which one can seek medical advice and treatment. It is a condition that is inherited by the child from the mother. As far as I know there is no medical treatment for homosexuality.<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
I did not say medical treatment. I only said treatment. The nature of treatment itself should be determined by experts. It may be psychological treatment, medical treatment or any other form of treatment that I am not aware of. It seems like you have an assumption that if some one is born with a disorder, then there is nothing one can do about that. This is not entirely true. People are born with inherited tendency for violence, extensive sex, laziness etc. and yet they are benefitting from experts to fight these attitudes.<\/div>\n
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6. You have stated, \u201cAs far as I see, we do not have any specific Ahadith from the Prophet (sws) in which he would advise homosexuals. Looking at the Ahadith, it may be concluded that the Prophet (sws) clearly disapproved recognition of homosexuals in his society where Islam was just being promoted and established\u201d<\/em>. This statement is contradictory. One the one hand you state that there are no Ahadith from the Prophet (sws) where he has given advice to homosexuals, on the other hand you have cited a few Ahadith.<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
You had asked me: “What advice did he give to such people?”. My understanding was that you were looking for Ahadith in which the Prophet (sws) had given advice to homosexuals so that they know how to deal with their homosexuality. I replied that as far as I was aware there was no such Hadith. The Ahadith that I quoted were the Prophet’s comments and advice about<\/u> homosexuality or homosexuals. I cannot see any contradiction here.<\/div>\n
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7. The Ahadiths you refer to relate to people of Prophet Loot. Those people acted by choice whereas congenital homosexuality is not by choice. <\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
No the Ahadith that I referred to relate to homosexuals in general. Read the first one again that is actually about after the Prophet (sws):<\/div>\n
From Jaabir: \u201cThe Prophet (sws) said: \u2018There is nothing I fear for my ummah more than the deed of the people of Loot.\u2019<\/div>\n
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8. You state, \u201cIt is up to the judge to decide about a punishment, and please note that a person who (as you said) was born with homosexual behaviour should not be considered for punishment for his tendencies.\u201d<\/em> I see another contradiction in this statement. <\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
Perhaps I was not clear enough, I try to explain like this:<\/div>\n
A. Intended homosexuality (either in behaviour or both behaviour and the act of sex): In principle this is punishable unless the person has done it out of pure ignorance. <\/div>\n
B. Congenital homosexual behaviour (that is not yet yield to any sexual acts): As I stated above this is not punishable.<\/div>\n
C. Congenital homosexuality in the act of sex: As I said above, this may be punishable and every case needs to be judged separately.<\/div>\n
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9. \u201cFrom Ibn ‘Abbas: The Prophet cursed effeminate men and those women who assume the manners of men, and he said, “Turn them out of your houses.” (Bukhari 7:774).\u201d<\/em> I don\u2019t think kicking them out of the house is a solution because it does not address the issue. It only moves it out of the house.<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
Agree. However this is not the Prophets (sws) solution for every society, every case and every time. This is only the way the Prophet (sws) safeguarded the society that was just starting to adopt Tazkya (purification), that is the main ingredient of the religion. The Prophets (sws) main concern was to make sure this born again society is immune from any evil tendencies. Also these people were not family members. They were mostly slaves.<\/div>\n
You wrote: <\/div>\n
\n
– Based on my thinking and some of the answers provided by you, it seems like the Qur\u2019an does not address congenital homosexuality, even though homosexuals existed all through the ages. Therefore, there is room for Ijtehad on this matter. Until there is a ruling on this matter, I think we need to be kind and tolerant towards such people.<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
As I said in my reply (see my comment to your point number 3) and also in my original answer, Qur’an has in fact addressed the concept of homosexuality by calling it among Fawahish<\/em> and Khaba’is<\/em>. These are very strong words and are disregard of the motive or the question that whether the behaviour was caused by gene or not. Note that these words are attributed to the behaviour not to the motives. We also have plenty of Ahadith<\/em> all condemning the act disregard of the motive or the cause. <\/div>\n
However I cannot be more agree with you on the point that we need to be kind and tolerate towards people with homosexual behaviour. However this does not necessarily mean that we need to recognise their sexual attitude as something acceptable and that we need to come up with a new definition for a family unit to accommodate their sexual needs. The only Ijtihadi<\/em> thing about homosexuality is when a punishment applies which as I said is not applicable to all cases). The nature and extent of the punishment as I said above is a matter of Ijtihad<\/em>.<\/div>\n
You wrote:<\/div>\n
\n
– What should I advise the person in question. Should I say that she being a homosexual cannot accept Islam or should I say that she can become a Muslim even though she is homosexual? Please advise. <\/u><\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
Being a homosexual has nothing to do with becoming or not becoming a Muslim. If your friend is convinced with the message of Islam then she is already Muslim and she only needs to declare it publicly to become officially Muslim. Muslim or not, religious or not, your friend should also accept the harsh fact that homosexuality is a disorder and it cannot and should not be formally accepted and accommodated in any society that is interested in physical and spiritual health and purity. A Muslim society (just like a practicing Jewish or Christian society) is no exception. This however does not mean that she is not welcome to become Muslim. This only means that her sexual desires cannot be formally recognised and accommodated in an Islamic system.<\/div>\n
You wrote:<\/div>\n
\n
My predicament begs the question, are there Muslims who are homosexuals? If so, what is our attitude towards them?<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n
I am sure they are, and the attitude towards them should be no different to the attitude towards any other homosexuals, that is (as you correctly said) kindness, tolerance but at the same time advice to seek help and advice to appreciate that their sexual desires cannot be materialised in a religious society and that they are tested by the Almighty just as every one of us are being tested on other issues.<\/div>\n